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Makemba Kunle

Biography of Interviewew:

Makemba Kunle is an educator and artist who became a member of the National Joint Action Committee (NJAC), one of the leading organizations for the 1970 Revolution in 1972. He supported the organisation in their work until 1988.

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Okay, I was born in Laventille, Success  Village, Laventille. With my... from a  
Grenadian father and a Trinidadian mother. He was African and my mother was Chinese mixed with  

Garifuna from St. Vincent. Her mother was from  St. Vincent. And from there I moved to Tunapuna,  

went to school in Tunapuna for a short while,  then moved to Barataria here at the age of 10. So,  

and I've been living in Barataria ever since,  so I consider myself a Barataria man. Although  

I still have strong ties in Laventille and  Tunapuna and Grenada. We a normal working  

class family. Until, yuh know, we striving  to go to middle class and so on, all of us.

And in school I was considered to be a bright  boy. Either first or second in class all the  

time. Until I reached, until I was one of the  few to get a scholarship to St. Mary's College.  

I think it was the first year of Common Entrance.  Got into St. Mary's College and still considered  

bright. But St. Mary's College was one of  the worst experiences for me. And I started  

slipping and slipping until it became an almost  unbearable experience. But I made it through. I  

got my three or four passes and was able to get a  teaching job. It's important that in St. Mary's,  

after the fact, I would consider why it is I  never enjoyed St. Mary's so much. Part of it,  

it didn't… nothing that we were doing was relevant  to what I wanted to do. And there was no arts  

and so on. Or drama or anything in the school,  things that I might have been more interested in.  

And not to mention catering to people of lighter  complexion, which I was. But I didn't belong to  

that– But I belonged to the Black tribe. Anyhow,  got a job teaching. Not that I wanted to teach,  

but I had godparents who had some sway in  the Ministry of Education. And they got me  

a job as a teacher. And I started at Nelson  Street Boys RC. That was in, around [19]68.

And around that time, that was a time of a lot of  social unrest. From 1968, 1969, going into 1970,  

for different reasons. And I was following it all,  but always from the side. Always from the side,  

until 1970. They started having some small  demonstrations. And one day while I was teaching,  

February the 26th 1970, that was the important  day. For me, one of the most important days of my  

life. Somebody ran into the school and say, Black  Power, coming. And… Sounding ominous enough. So,  

I decided to go out there. Some of the children  also left the school to go and see what was going  

on. I made sure I was there. By that time,  they were heading to the cathedral. And they  

were going into the cathedral. Not too many.  Maybe a couple hundred or something. Youths,  

black youths. And they gone into the cathedral.  And I gone through the crowd. Get a front row,  

in the cathedral. See what's going on here. There  we had... Makandal Daaga. Khafra Kambon. Carl  

Blackwood. Clyde Nunez. I can't remember who else.  I think Ayeigoru (Ome). Yeah. And... They were  

talking on the mic. Carl Blackwood especially was  very fiery. He was the president of the student's  

union. Or ex-president. Geddes Granger, he was  something else. And Dave D'Abreau. Dave D'Abreau,  

I knew from living in Tunapuna. A bigger boy  than me. But he was just normal. You know,  

just a normal person. And when I see him up  there… It's almost unbelievable. This fellow  

I know from Tunapuna and so on. He's up there  talking brave, courageously. Articulate about  

things going on in the world. That he knows about.  How it's affecting us. How it's affecting black  

people. Making analyses. And sharing a different  vision of what he wanted for us as black people.

And also hearing how he was just beaten over  at Royal Bank. When they tried to enter and  

so on. And I was… To say impressed is to say  the least. It was a blow mind for me. Maybe  

if I didn't know him. You know? But I knew him.  So I leaving there… Leaving there afterwards.

The main thing that I was left with is... Not so  much that we had to change… the country needed a  

change. That I have to change. That was the main  thing. I had to change from being apathetic to  

what happening. I had to change from being a  weakling and a coward. To be strong and brave.  

I had to learn to be assertive. And I had to  get myself conscious. I had to start reading  

and so on. And I started my journey from there.  To change mehself. And I tell this because… I  

know that it possible for people to change  themselves. Because I did it. That same year…  

I started following up the Black Power meetings  after that. Not as a member. As a follower. Got  

into Mausica Teachers’ College that same year. All  as part of this thing for me to change myself. You  

know? Going there. Start doing some reading and so  on. And start developing myself. When I went into  

college... Very few people knew me. So I had a  good opportunity there to create a brand new image  

of who I am. Whereas I used to sit dong in the  back of the class... I started sitting dong in the  

front of the class. I never used to ask questions.  I start asking questions. I was really really  

nervous. I start asking questions. And answering  questions. I joined a drama group. I joined dance.  

I start to play basketball. Ended up on the  basketball team. They had student politics. I  

went up for president of the student's union. They  made me president of the student's union. Started  

a group of poets. Call what? Black Expressions. We  used to go about to schools doing black poetry and  

so on. With drums and things. Started doing  things. And I can say... I changed myself.

So by the time… All that time... Things  going on outside. N.U.F.F. [National Union  

of Freedom Fighters] burning down things. Doing  their thing. And getting killed. By the time I  

left... And also... I was doing a lot of… We were  doing a lot of protest action there too. So by the  

time I left… By the time I graduated... I was  a valedictorian. I made the graduation speech.  

And they printed the graduation speech. In the  newspapers. With a headline… “Rebel Teacher  

Shocks Mausica”. And it was after... After that…  I was approached by... People from Tapia House  

Group. Which was headed by Lloyd Best. And...  They asked me if I was willing to join them.  

Because they read that speech. And I told them...  If I was to join any movement... It would be  

NJAC [National Joint Action Committee]. Because  I... I reading about... The militancy taking  

place. Many things that N.U.F.F. was doing... I  was ascribe… In my mind, I ascribed it to NJAC. I  

wanted to do things... Where you have… You taking  action. Militant action or military action. And I  

thought NJAC was that. And one of those who  came to meet me... Lloyd Taylor from Tapia.  

His sister was involved with NJAC. And he  went to tell his sister what I had said.  

And then… Ome came to me with... Somebody  else. Bandalay… And invited me to join NJAC  

officially. Which I did. And… I thought joining  NJAC would be... My introduction to... Taking  

action. Getting guns in my hand. Bombs and so on.  But it was a lot of meetings. A lot of meetings. A  

lot of talking. A lot of building consciousness. A  lot of developing. And so on. And they were about  

the business of educating people. At the time and  so on. So I was a little disappointed in that.  

But it was still one of... It was still a life  changing experience. Powerful. Powerful because...  

Almost... Every time we met. Which might be  weekly or bi-weekly or whatever. In our area,  

which is Barataria, Makandal Daaga used  to come and give us a talk. And he was so  

inspiring. He was so inspiring. And those days  it was... Meetings always had to be secret.  

And... A lot of code. Code words and so on.We used  to have... For meetings and different things. And  

even for people. And we were being... Watched  a lot by the police. Watched and harassed. And  

attacked by the police at the time. But...  It wasn't for nothing. Because at the time,  

NJAC was also involved in... In... Activities.  In which they attacking the... Attacking some  

part of the establishment. Using military action.  So... And the police were trying to get us. But  

they just couldn't pin anything. Pin anything on  NJAC. While in NJAC... Apart from the everyday  

activities that we might have which is building  consciousness among people and things. Selling  

the newspaper. Talking to people. Trying to  attract membership. I had a lot of work to do  

in communications. Because I had the ability to  draw. So I used to do a lot of illustrations. A  

lot of illustrations for the newspapers. And  other publications. And so on. And there's  

myself and Kolo. Who was in charge of the  Barataria group. He was an Indian fellow.  

Who was well liked by everyone. But he died.  You wouldn't be able to interview him. Yes,  

doing a lot of artwork. Posters. Billboards.  Things... Graffiti. Graffiti. “Don't touch.”  

“Don't touch D’Arbeau.” And that kind of thing.  Because they had him on a charge. “Black power.”  

The fists. A lot of these things all over the  wall. And so on. I remember doing a big fist.  

On Fernandez wall. It was one of my best pieces of  art. And by seven in the morning they had already  

painted it over. So people hardly get... People  hardly get to see it. But it was an exciting time.

Eventually I went on to do other things in  NJAC. I represented NJAC in conferences in  

other countries. So I got to go abroad. I met...  I met Fidel Castro. Met with... This fellow with  

Muhammad Gaddafi. Met… Ortega in Nicaragua. Met  Botourse in Suriname. So… A lot of opportunities  

were open to me. And which I took advantage  of. That I could now have good memories of  

meeting people like from Dominica who was  involved in the George Williams University  

thing. Rosie Douglas. Rosie Douglas and his  brother [indecipherable] from St. Vincent. Tim  

Hector from Antigua. Met... And had some good  conversations with these people. And then...

Outside of that I was involved also in  organizing art exhibitions and so on. We  

had the first Emancipation Exhibition inviting  all the artists. We took them to Barbados.

First time some of these artists ever  go outside of the country. We took them  

there. In 81 I took part in, 82! NJAC  decided to enter the elections. And I  

represented Barataria in those elections.  I went up against Kamaludin Mohammed.

If I get 500 votes I get plenty. But it was a  nice experience. Eventually I broke, I didn't  

break. I just stopped functioning with NJAC around  1988-89 I think. I was... By that time I was only,  

mostly involved with the arts, artist  movement and so on. And I was losing  

interest in the politics. And took  a break. But I've been close to them  

since. And I started working on my own  arts. And my own projects and so on.

Started Studio 66. And that's where  I am now. After how many years?

Yeah.

I have some clarifying questions.  So you said that when you left some  

random person ran into this school and  said Black Power. So what prompted you?

What about that call made you curious?

Because I had, I was, I had this rebel spirit  in me. But it wasn't directed anywhere.

I had started following up Black Power  here, Black Power in the States. And so  

on. I dunno. Something said they're  calling me. You know? Something.

So do you believe that the unrest that was  taking place before 70 was the... Transport  

workers having the thing. In 68, 69. Do you  think that contributed to the general atmosphere?

Yes.

Sort of galvanized people. Because  it became more than a support for  

what was happening with the students in  Canada. In a very short period of time.  

So you think all of that,  it was coming, essentially?

Yes. But you hafta remember too is not here  alone. There was a time all over the world  

people especially over the third world people  now started anti-colonial movements going  

on and so on. Not to mention the civil rights  movement in the States. So it wasn't we alone.

So you said you had a front  row seat in the cathedral. Now  

the news people reported that the  Black Power followers protesters,  

they desecrated the statues in the cathedral.  Can you speak to whether that was true or not?

Well if you could call throwing a  jersey over, a black t-shirt over  

one of the saints if you could call that  desecrating well right. Other than that,  

there was a black cloth or black t-shirt over  one or two of them of the saints. That was it.

Do you know why the cathedral  was chosen as a site of protest?

No, I don't know. But it was, it turned out  to be an important thing because it looked  

like well it have nothing these Black  Power followers have respect for again.

You did say that Dabreau said  that they tried to go into the  

bank. So they were originally  intending to go somewhere else.

Yes, they were going to the Royal Bank  because Royal Bank of Canada and the  

students were jailed in Canada. And they were  going in there and they beat them in the bank,  

in the bank or outside the  bank. And I don't know how I  

never really got this story how they  managed to make it to the cathedral.

Was it about Dabreau that you said you  were impressed by him? Is it because  

he was someone that you knew? Like he  was someone you could identify with?

Yes, I could identify with him.

I grew up just like him.

Very good. I know his family.  His father and my father were  

friends. Yeah. He lived just a couple  blocks away from where I was living.

So you wouldn't expect him  to see someone like him? No.

It's always somebody else.  But if it comes right home,  

that means wait, I could do something too. Yeah.

Okay. So then, fast forward to when  you said that you joined NJAC because  

you associated a lot of things  that NUFF was doing with NJAC.

Yeah.

What was NUFF doing that you felt was necessary?

Robbing banks, attacking police  stations, that kind of thing.

You felt like that was necessary for the movement?

I thought that yes, I was a reader of Franz  Fanon who said violence is a cleansing force.

Yeah, I have his book.

Yes.

I understand. So when you joined,  

why did you stay in NJAC instead of  joining NUFF? After you found out.

Oh, as a matter of fact, a lot of the  leadership of NUFF I was acquainted with  

even from long before. People like  Guy Harewood and Jeffers and so on.

And Terry Thornhill. They used to be coming home  by me. They were good friends with our family,  

with my sisters and so on. And so I was really  acquainted with them more than anybody else  

in NJAC. But while in NJAC I wasn't in  communication with them. They were all

(Interruption) Hey, hello Asabi.

Yeah.

Is it fair to say that a lot of the people who  were important to the movement originated from  

the Tunapuna area? Even Tapia House  was based in Tunapuna. You yourself,  

Dabreau. And these guys from  NUFF, they were based in.

No, these guys from NUFF, they were more  from the West. Yeah. So the connection you  

had with them was because they  were in school with my sister.

How old were you in 1970?

In NJAC I was 20.

That's young to become a revolutionary.  Well no, because there is no age really.

Well no, because Kambon and  them. They were in their  

mid-twenties. Everybody was young at the time.

Young but also educated.

Yeah.

Usually you'd find that middle class or, as  you were saying, aspiring to middle class,  

they're the ones that would support the  government because they're benefiting more.  

Most from the stability of society. They're;  the ones with the jobs and all these things.

It's really like when they say the masses it's  usually those from lower class. Even right now  

you have fellas from Beetham, women, whoever  throwing out putting garbage on the roads.  

They're the ones that are leading protests. Not  necessarily people that you consider to be school  

educated. Why do you think that? Was it because  of that education that you think that prompted  

like you said it was sort of like a worldwide  worldwide change was coming especially in what was  

considered what is considered to be third World.  Do you think that education contributed to it?

Not the education I get in school.  I don't know if the Khambon and dem  

get maybe they have different lecturers  in UWI and so on. I was educated just to  

be a normal idiot like anybody else  and look for a job like a teacher.

Yeah. Education had to be your own  personal education that you give yourself.

What was seductive about this  movement? It must have been  

frightening to want to join with people  who were essentially trying to tear down.

The rightness of it.

It felt right?

Yeah, it felt right. It felt right.  We needed some brave people to tear  

down this thing and I had to try  to be brave, to be one of them.

Can you tell me about the steps that you  took after you heard those speeches coming  

out of the cathedral and what not because  you said you felt like you had to be brave,  

you had to be more aggressive, you  had to educate yourself. What kind  

of literature were you reading? What  philosophies did you feel inspired by?

Autobiography of Malcolm X and The  Wretched of the Earth. These were  

the two books that were available at  the time for me. Later on I got into  

Marcus Garvey. A lot of NJAC was inspired  by Marcus Garvey. Yeah. What other books?

Other books that would teach you more of the  African history and so on I got later on but  

in 70, in 70 mostly pamphlets. “East River  Speaks” where I would get a little thing and  

they might have a drawing of a gun somewhere in  between it so you know where they're coming from.

Who was putting out those pamphlets?

Different arms of NJAC  Yeah. At that time NJAC was,  

it was really a coalition of a whole set  of forces. Yeah. Unions, community groups,  

blocs and so on. It wasn't yet  just one unit like how it is now.

So you said that when you graduated  from the Teachers College,  

the headline was Rebel Teacher. Why  did they call you Rebel Teacher?

Because of the speech that I made. It was  

rebellious and it could be termed  revolutionary and hard hitting.

Do you remember what you said?

Yeah. I have it there. A  quote from NJAC paper and all.

I have it there. I could give it  to you sometime. Send it to you.

Because you were a good student. You joined  basketball. Dance, drama. And they made  

you valedictorian. For you to stand up on the  people stage and incite violence and sedition.

Yeah.

So it was printed where? Express?

Bomb. That time they just  started The Bomb. Not too long.

Do you have a copy of that? Of that  print? Yeah I would like to see that.

Somebody who managed to keep a copy over  the years gave it to me the other day.

That's great. It's these things that  we need to keep. Digitize and archive.

Why did you think that guns  and bombs were necessary to  

effect change? Why did you particularly want that?

It was a kind of adventurism I think. On  my part. Seeing how the Vietnamese do it.

It was a kind of adventurism.  I don't know, right now,  

i dont know if it's necessary. Or sometimes  I wonder if anything has ever changed.

Yeah.

Even with the guns. And if  you're saying that Fanon  

was one of your core literature. He  spoke specifically about Vietnam and  

how it had galvanized the rest of  the world. It's different now though.

Okay, the idea of the people's parliament,  

I think everyone's idea of that is Woodford  Square. Did you join the public meetings and  

the public protests? The March to Caroni  and all that? Were you part of that?

No, I didn't March to Caroni. But  I was part of a lot of the marches.  

Basil Davis funeral and so on. Anything  after that. When I joined them officially,  

well I was in everything. Yeah.  That would not have been until 1972.

What was the atmosphere like during the marches?

Sometimes solemn. Sometimes solemn. At all times  serious. Serious. Meditative. And disciplined.  

And very disciplined. Had no dotishness going  on. Nobody coming in with a bottle of rum.

There were reports of the marches leading  to looting in Port of Spain. Different  

forms of violence. Would you say that that  was something that was coming out of the…?

Yeah, there was some looting in Port of Spain.  But it wasn't so much as one would expect with  

hundreds of thousands of people on the  road every day. There was burning down  

of some buildings. I'm not sure to what  extent the organization responsible or  

people just doing their own thing. I have  a fellow in Barataria here who tried to  

burn down the primary school. Nobody told  him to do that. He gone under the school.

(Interruption) Excuse me.

Hello.

Cricketer family?

I don't think so.

I don't know. I don't know that  side of my family very well.

So what was, in the middle of all of this, what  was the relationship like or how did the police  

treat with NJAC and just generally the protesters?  Because you mentioned police harassment.

Yeah. Good question. NJAC Thank you. NJAC  developed a kind of mixed relationship for the  

attitude towards each other was kind of mixed.  There was one of respect. The police wouldn't  

rough up a NJAC man like how they would rough  up a normal fellow on the block. Long as they  

know this is a NJAC man, they treat him with  respect. Even if they had to arrest them or  

search the house or anything like that. There  were very few instances of police actually,  

except on the streets when they want to stop a  march or any kind of thing.Whoever they beat,  

they beat. Some of the students had their  altercations with the police. The harassment  

always stopping in any cars to see what they have  in it. Searching of homes. A lot of searching of  

homes. They were really doing their jobs. It's  not that they were against black power. A lot  

of them were for black power. We got to know over  time. We got to know a lot of the secret service.

(Phone rings) Sorry again. Hello?

A lot of police officers were  in support of Black Power.

How could you tell? Because of having  conversations with them. At the meetings,  

over time, you get to see the same policemen. And  they were even if they were what they call the  

secret, not secret service, special branch. Even  the special branch. You know all who is special  

branch. We started to talk to one another. He  was doing his work. We were doing our work. I  

knew a few of them around here well. So there was  even the real bad police. What people call bad.  

Burroughs and Carrington and these fellows would  have spirited conversations with some of us. Yeah.

You said something about the NJAC man. Did  

you all have identifying colors  or anything that would make you…?

No. After a time especially in the later  70s all the NJAC people were wearing  

African clothes. All of them  started changing their name.

That stood out.

That stood out, yes.

So what was common wear at that point in time?

You mean outside there?

You said change clothes to start wearing African.

T-shirts and normal shirts with color and so  on. Even pants. We started wearing African pants  

instead of, and also we were not only it's not a  matter of just taking on your African identity.

It was a matter of trying to do something  about our dependency. All the clothes  

coming from outside we're wearing. All  the styles coming from, we're wearing.

So we're trying to change all that. Let we wear  sandals and so we'd wear all that and people  

start making sandals and so on. I just talked  a guy, his grandson his granddaughter coming  

to do classes with me tomorrow. He's saying,  he makes sandals. He said in 1970 he started.

Really? That prompted him to start.  Is it like the leather sandals? Do  

you think that gave rise to  places like the drag mall?

Not think. That is what gave rise to it.  1970 with all this talk, what we could do  

for ourselves and so on. People were affected.  Making sandals, making their own clothes,  

making this. And people started going down  by. “Look we eh eating in dem white people's  

plates we eating calabash.” There was plenty of  that too. When we're having ceremonies in NJAC,  

calabash. No plates. No chairs. We not sitting  down on no chair. We sitting down on the  

floor. We sitting down on cushion. We said only  thing that we make. Yeah. It was very radical.

Yeah, it sounds like it. Do you see  that now? Do you see echoes of that now?

No. I don't see that now. Where would I  see it? I don't think they could ever,  

I don't think I would ever see that  again. That kind of mind. Look,  

we're in a meeting in Carapichaima. The  meeting run late. We have to come home  

after midnight. We only have one car. So we  had to take whatever transports. Daaga send  

some of the women down in our car. And he said,  alright, let's start walking. It was simple.

It was no “what we could do?” We had a different  

mindset. Let's start walking. He said,  alright, let we go. And we walk home.

From Carapichaima?

Yeah. To where?

Who live in Barataria, who live  in Port of Spain. Yeah. Yeah.  

No argument. No studying what we could do. Maybe.

And do you think he was the  galvanizing force behind that?

Yeah, he was something else. He  was besides being charismatic,  

he was an action man. He was a leader. A leader  as he who would walk first. He who would go first.  

Yeah. He had courage. I remember I can't say I  remember, but I hear it so many times like I was  

there. In Tobago. At that time,  Pelican. No, what is that beach?

Pigeon Point.

Pigeon Point. March into Pigeon Point  because they don't want people, they block  

the way to Pigeon Point. They had to pay  to go in. And he walk up, and police that  

they march into Pigeon Point and police by the  gate, nobody can pass and so on. And he would,  

he walk up to the man in charge and start  talking to him and talking to him and  

talking to him until the man let everybody  go. Yeah. Yeah, he was something else.

So, you said that he –

You never met him? Anyhow,  

yeah. By the time he died, you must  have just been sitting Common Entrance.

I looking young. (laughter)

But, the composition of the marches  because it started this galvanizing,  

somebody ran in and they said Black  Power. Was it a Black Power movement?

Um It was a Black Power movement but it  was not only that. It was a people power  

movement. I think they used the Black too  easy, It was too easy. A concept you know

It was easy to take it up?

Yeah, too easy. It was people power and  was about sovereignty. The people owning  

the resources of the country and in control.  It was for a new kind of government that's  

more representative of the people and so on. I  think Black Power itself was probably a misnomer.

So, if you were to change the name what would you  call it? If you could go back and say alyuh...

I would just call it a people's revolution.

During the marches what was  the ethnicities involved?

Mostly African and mixed. Mostly African  and mixed and because it was mostly urban  

and it was after the march to Caroni that  it started stirring up the cane workers  

and so on there. From what I understand  it's when they now were able to repeat  

the march from Caronii to Port of Spain  where the Indian and African would get  

together and that's when they called  it a state of emergency on April 21st.

So the state essentially had a hand in collapsing  what could have been a true people's revolution.

Yeah. Yeah. But they had  to do what they had to do.

Do you think that mostly, you said it was urban,  do you think that of course we can't play down  

what indigenous workers, not indigenous, sorry,  indentured laborers were enduring, but was there a  

particular reason why the larger percentage of the  ethnicities in the march was black? Do you think  

that economic conditions at that time prompted  black people to want to change the system?

I'm not good in this analyzing and  thing business. I leave it up to others.

So we're talking 1970. This is just  eight years after independence.

And the country was already kind of polarized.  PNM, DLP kind of thing was already kind of  

polarized. According to a study that Tapia had  done at the time, African-owned business was  

4% and Indian, 9%. So they were twice our size  in business, but it's really not much. 4%, 9%.

Out of the overall 100%, is nothing.

Yeah, it's nothing. But at the time the African  was more out there. And we were trying to  

change the meaning of the word black to include  Indian. I don't think it ever really succeeded.

Do you think that the march from Caroni to  Port-of Spain would have been significant?

Yeah. The government would have fallen.

You said you weren't present  in the march to Caroni.

Yeah.

But did you hear about it from  others? What were you told about it?

That they were well-received all along  the road. People offering them drinks,  

food, and so on. There were no incidents,  

any kind of abuse. Anybody saying,  what are you doing down here? Yeah.

But the reports in the newspaper  tend to give a slightly slanted  

story. Yeah. From what I've read and  from what my other interviewee said,  

that there was fear-mongering done in  advance to frighten people in Caroni  

and to sort of dissuade them from joining or  from even listening to what was being said.

Yes. At that time, a fellow named Bhadase Maraj,  he was in charge of the Maha Sabha at the time.  

He was a kind of bad-john. He was a real don.  And yeah. He hated the black power movement.  

When they were passing on the March to Caroni,  matter of fact, he would hold up guns, big rifle,  

and showing them. Yeah. So I'm certain a lot  of that would have taken place. Yeah. Because  

the politics, the conventional politics here,  based on race and keeping the two races apart,  

and they didn't want that not to happen. But  I've never heard anybody talk about any kind  

of any abusive language or anything coming  from the Indians when they went to Caroni.

Yeah.

So how did you spend, like,  during this state of emergency,  

things, what was NJAC doing? Everything was...

Meeting in secrets. Um... Um… But  anytime they have the state of emergency,  

they arrest people. So most of the leadership of  NJAC under arrest. Under arrest and...And which is  

very hard for a fledgling organization.  You're not even two years old and...

But Daaga himself was not arrested.

Yeah. Yeah. Daaga was… More  than once, he was detained.

Okay. Well, I mean... When that  march was supposed to happen,  

I think they caught everyone  in one fell swoop, he wasn't...

Yeah. And he was arrested somewhere in...

Afterwards.

Somewhere in Central.

So that is what really put an end to everything.  First the joining of the two major ethnicities.

Yeah.

And then the fact that the leadership was  

dismantled. Yeah. How many years  were you involved in NJAC formally?

Um... 72 to 88. 16 years.

16 years. So from since you were 22?

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

And the words that they used to describe  these events, revolution, guerrillas,  

guerrilla warfare, gangs, those things,  do you think that's accurate? Do you  

think it... Because most of those words  tend to have negative connotations. Do  

you think it's... Do you think any  of those terms are unfairly applied?

Um... Let me hear that again.

Words like first of all, revolution.

Yeah.

We already spoke about Black  Power itself as a misnomer, right?

Yeah. But words like revolution...

Yes. NUFF was revolutionary.

NJAC was considered... They were  considered to be guerrillas and  

involved in guerrilla warfare. Yeah.  And they were also called like...  

I read something that said that  Beverly Jones was part of a gang.

Oh, no. No.

So do you think words like those things...

Guerrillas, yes. They were guerrillas.  Operating in a hit-and-run basis and  

hiding in the mountain. That's  guerrilla action. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

But not gang. Mm.

What... What would be the difference?

Motivation, for one. Mm-hmm. They  didn't do anything for their own  

benefits. They're doing something to further  a cause. Um... That's the main difference.

So while you were at NJAC, were you... And NUFF  

was fully active. Were you still  in contact with the NUFF members?

No.

Because they were sort of scattered. Yeah.  Well, how did… What was your family like? Was  

your family supporting your choices at that point  in time? Were they affected by your involvement?

Yes. Um, family, well, first, um... I was living  with my parents. Living with my parents before I  

got married and so on. Um... This is...They  were cool with it. Not supportive. My father  

would support the government. He's a PNM man and  so on. Yeah, we'd have our arguments. But not...  

Not arguments that would lead to...his telling me  he dont want me in his house and all that kind of  

thing. And even when I... When I got married  now, my wife was in… She was a member of NJAC  

also. She was part of the women's... The women's  group. Yeah. And children, they grew up in NJAC.

So there was a heavy female  presence in the movement.

They took this thing seriously when they talk  about respect and they debate the women and so  

on. At least we took it seriously. And… Every...  And yes, they had... Daaga used to make sure that  

in everything we having women, playing a key role.  Yeah. I don't know if in the relationships...

Um... Some relationships with men might still  want to hit women lash and... Or abuse them in  

some kind of way. It might have had that  still... I'm not so aware of what goes  

on behind doors. But generally, you had  to be seen to be showing women respect.

So... I want to put another side or off to the  side. Um… Eric Williams... He was the... Um...

And... He was initially against the movement, yes?

Yeah.

But then he changed afterwards and he was  saying that he was in support of Black Power.

No, he never changed. Um... He never  changed. He was against... If... Well,  

why he could call a state of emergency or this  kind of thing. He never changed. Um... What he  

did in order to neutralize the movement or to  try to neutralize the movement, he would co-opt  

some of the language of the movement and say,  okay, you want us to take over this? All right,  

we're going to nationalize this. We're going to  nationalize that. So what he was doing, actually,  

is acceding to the demands of the movement. What  we was calling for. And as a matter of fact,  

um... So many of the things we call  for he eventually started to do. So  

pulling out… Pulling out some of our...  of the weapons that we would use. You  

know? Taking it out of the thing and...coming  close to neutralizing the movement from that.

So... Would you say that NJAC achieved its aim  then if he did acquiesce to some of the demands?

Yeah, we achieved some of the aims.  A lot of the aims. Some of them last.  

Some of the things that we achieved  were lasting. Some not. For instance,  

the same Royal Bank we talked about  there. Changed the name to Royal Bank  

of Trinidad. Now they're going back to  Royal Bank of Canada. Um... Up to now,  

Trinidad… Outside of Africa, Trinidad have the  highest percentage of African names in the world.

That's impressive. Okay, I didn't know that.  Now, years later, 50-something years since then?

Could be.

Can you look around and say that  you see the impact of what NJAC  

did or stood for or promoted or  endorsed in Trinidad? No, no.

I can't... I can't say that. I can't  say that. What I could say is that  

um... It's... History does...  I'm wondering how to put it.  

Sometimes the achievement cant be measured just  like that. It might take even more time for  

people to step away and see. And the history of a  movement... The history of a movement um is always  

in steps, little steps. And this was one little  step in terms of, in the journey that Black people  

be liberated or that there be peace and justice  in the world. That's… you know, we play our parts.  

And the others will do, play different parts in  the future. And because same as somebody will say,  

well, look, what NJAC do? You have to say, well,  look, what Marcus Garvey do? What did Toussaint  

do? You know, everybody play their part and  they get reverses and they go again and so on.

Good point. Now, you referenced Vietnam in the  beginning and you also talked about how you were,  

you know, able to travel and go to meet  different people um... while you were  

actively involved in NJAC. Do you think that  our revolution here contributed to a general  

overall... Do you think we had  an impact on the world at large?

The Grenada Revolution would not have happened  if it wasn't for here. People like Maurice Bishop  

and them got a lot of support from NJAC here.  From since in the 70s. From since in the early  

70s. We affected movements in St. Vincent  after here and people used to come here,  

people from they call themselves ULIMO. Used to  come here a lot for talks on how to move ahead.  

I think the whole Caribbean was affected by what  was taking place here. Antigua and so on. It gave  

them... Even if some of them had started before,  it gave them impetus. Yeah. And there was a lot  

of literature passing between the islands. A lot  of literature. There was a lot of communication.

What is the... If you... If  there was one lesson to be  

learned from the 70s revolution, what would it be?

I can't say, nah.
Short summary of interview:

Makemba Kunle explores his personal journey during the Black Power Revolution in Trinidad and Tobago in 1970. The conversation highlights key events of the 1970 Revolution, including the protests, police harassment, and the political activities that Kunle observed and participated in. Kunle shares his reflections on the legacy of the 1970 Revolution, the ongoing struggle for racial equality, and the broader global context of anti-colonial movements. He emphasizes the lasting impact of the revolution, both in Trinidad and Tobago and across the Caribbean, including its influence on other regional movements, such as the Grenada Revolution.

Additional Material
Citation:

Atherton, A. (2024, September 3). Makemba Kunle – Trinbago Griot. Trinbago Griot. https://trinbagogriot.com/item/makemba-kunle/

Project Information

Memories of Trinidad and Tobago’s 1970 Revolution is an oral history project aimed at capturing the stories, experiences, and legacies of individuals who played key roles in the 1970 Revolution in Trinidad and Tobago. The project seeks to provide a platform for those voices that helped shape the movement, which in turn, transformed the nation.

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